Not sure whether to laugh or cry

[ViperE]

In one of the sites I use to download torrents from, they have on the front page, links to "Shoutwire" messages.

Those are basically just posts made by random people, where people can "shout" to them and respond.

Recently, it's been filled mostly with threads about the war here in the middle-east. Some in support of Israel, and of course, most against it.

Anyways, skimming through the responses, it really came to a surprise when I saw some messages:

2 words.... Norman Finkelstein

He is an anti-semitic JEW and he can prove to you in his books that israel doesnt have the right to kill everyone or even have a fuckin country.

Thank you and go to hell.

jews always turn the argument around they are the best liars in the world!!!!!

If your a zionist you deserve to die...
That way you can be buried in your so called promised land...

Many were worse or along those lines.
I thought we were almost past that stage. -.-

On another place, they had a post with a link, claiming that Israel has been testing chemical weapons in Lebanon, and added pictures of scorched bodies of people, as a "proof".
-.-

Anyway, never mind me and my rantings.

[PhakeDC]

People always get angry and vent on boards or protests. Die Islamofascists or bloodthirsty Zionists or filthy Crusaders etc. Anyway I've said this several times already, if there's no political will to resolve the volatile issues in the middle east more hate and radicals will be born. The way I see it's now become an issue of pride between Israel and Hizballah. Grow up people, nobody will benefit from any more escalation!

[ViperE]

It's not about pride at all. At least not from Israel's side.

But nvm, I won't get into that again.

[Halibut]

Generally, I don't know *exactly* whats going, only that neither side wants to back down and that there's now been such a long history of fighting, that there is probably no real solution.

But my ignorance does not mean I condone all these racial insults, from either side. Its rude and unnecessary.

[Uncle Nasty]

Even though I'm a social democrat, and member of the Norwegian labor party I chose to use the term 'left' in this discussion.


Too many left wingers are so politically correct they actually become the oposite. They spew so much hate and venom its incredible.

Its usually the idiots on the far left, who object massively every time Israel or the Us does something, and even when they don't do anything. Just like this conflict, its like they magically forget that Hezbollah a terror organization has totally infiltrated Lebanon with backing from Syria and Iran.


Quite frankly Iran and Syria should be fucking bombed because they are the ones responsible for this fucking mess.

[PhakeDC]

Iran is vastly Persian, and they see themselves superior to Arabs (oh but doesn't everyone else already? :laugh) so they like to meddle in the region. Syria is a commie dictatorship that I really detest. But you know I also find US hypocrisy appalling too; many other regimes are 100% dictatorships are supported simply because they happen to be friends with the US (Saddam was one). Arabs anyway are still premature for democracy.. Too bad the Holy Land had already many Arab inhabitants before Israel was created, who then became refugees and thus a burden on other countries (which is something I'd like to constantly remind my Palestinian friends of; since they loved their land so much why didn't fight to the last man, like every other population had? Sure there were terrorist movements like  Haganah and Irgun, but they weren't Chetnik Serbs! Oddly enough that's called Zionist political violence nowadays, a PC term ). The way I see it for a permanent peace in the middle east;

1) Depletion of oil.
2) A permanent solution to the Palestinian issue.
3) Less influence of religious zealots.
4) Arabs must tell Iran to mind its own business.
5) Less incursions, more PR and trade.

Also all people need to learn a bit of pragmatism. The Japanese, Vietnamese, Germans, etc have been much better off that way.

Apparently my opinions aren't pleasing either sides but my conscience is at peace (or relative rather, I'm still appalled by all this bloodshed)

PS - And I agree lefties ought to get their sh!t together and help settle the turbulance rather than pour more fuel on the flames (or however the saying goes )

[PhakeDC]

As for Hizballah it cannot be physically destroyed. The British had already tried to vanquish the IRA, they failed of course, but they managed to undermine it severely (those cunning Brits). The KLA, Tamil Tigers, Kurdistan Workers' Party, the PLO, plus many other guerilla groups were never destroyed, and many are still fighting to this very day. Policitians and military leaders fail to learn lessons from history. Heck I predicted the painful Iraqi insurgency even before Baghdad had fallen, but not a single American had listened (I can cite at least one of my posts)

The most effective way to undermine a guerilla group is to appease the ethnic group backing it up. Israel has been heavy handed and I'm not changing my opinion regarding that. It's evident civilian casualties could have been much greater, but heed NATO operations against Serbia in 1999. Almost 80 days of bombardment and many less civilian casualties. But it comes to these Arabs their lives just aren't as important (and believe me it's driving everyone here mad, even those who say Hizballah made a mistake by instigating Israel) Personally I'm not sure how that can be done in Hizballah's case (the appeasemen bit), but it is doable nonetheless. Perhaps my five points above need apply.

[ViperE]

I don't think Hizballah can be completely broken down by force either.
Only Lebanon can take them out, and make them stop controlling the country.
The problem is that Lebanon doesn't really care that Hizballah attacks Israel whenever they like, as long as it doesn't hurt them.

Hizballah makes some lebanese think they are the 'defending force of Lebanon'. They are just the arms of Syria and Iran, trying to control Lebanon as their puppet.

Even now, if Lebanon wanted to, they could demand Hizballah to stop their attacks. And I do think they would, with public pressure.

No one asks them to.
So we continue to fight and defend ourselves.


(BTW, bodies of Iranian soldiers have been found among the Hizballah casualties recently)

[PhakeDC]

They'd rather have Israeli bombardment than risk civil conflict I think. Lebanon is such a complicated society. They deserve better, given they're far ahead of any other Arab countries with regard to the democratic process. A majority wanted Hizballah to disarm but that certainly would have taken a looong time. Perhaps they instigated the kidnapping to divert attention from their disarmament talks which were soon due.

Ah bloody hell, I want a ceasefire so badly

[ViperE]

There are rumours that Syria plans on attacking Israel soon, and open another front.

Hopefully, they'll have more sense than that, and keep that on the range of "rumours".
Either way, even if they do, some people will surely blame us again.